I Am A Rock!

Highly-educated rebels insist on materialism, as it’s their best attempt to shut God up.

But what actually happens, is that the rebel is struck dumb.

From Uncommon Descent’s One Can’t Even Speak as if Materialism Were True:

In a previous post I demonstrated that no sane person acts as if materialism were true.  It later occurred to me that it is impossible to even speak as if materialism were true.

Consider the following statement:

“I believe materialism is true.”

The statement implicitly affirms the following three things that are true only if monist materialism is false:

  1. Subject-object duality. There is a subject (the observer; i.e., the “I” in the statement) who perceives an object (the concept of materialism).
  1. Intentionality. A mental state exists that is directed toward some object.  Bags of chemicals do not have beliefs.
  1. Self-aware subjectivity as a declared reality. It is absurd to say the illusion of myself foisted on me by the chemicals that make up my body has a position regarding the truth of materialism.  The speaker concedes the reality of the subjective self.

OK, what the man is saying is that piles of dust and water do not think, don’t have intensions, and don’t have illusions.

Mung: There is no essential difference between jdk, a machine, and a rock. If only we had more rocks posting here!

Get on that Barry, please?

jdk: Of course there are essential differences. The whole world is made of chemicals, but obviously there are also differences. This statements depends, of course, on your criteria for essential.

Barry Arrington: jdk says chemicals can have beliefs. I welcome his comments. They demonstrate the lunacy to which materialism drives people.

kairosfocus: JDK, it seems you imply evolutionary materialism. Very well, it seems you face:

Alex Rosenberg as he begins Ch 9 of his The Atheist’s Guide to Reality:

>> FOR SOLID EVOLUTIONARY REASONS, WE’VE BEEN tricked into looking at life from the inside. Without scientism, we look at life from the inside, from the first-person POV (OMG, you don’t know what a POV is?—a “point of view”). The first person is the subject, the audience, the viewer of subjective experience, the self in the mind.

Scientism shows that the first-person POV is an illusion. [–> grand delusion is let loose in utter self referential incoherence] Even after scientism convinces us, we’ll continue to stick with the first person. But at least we’ll know that it’s another illusion of introspection and we’ll stop taking it seriously. We’ll give up all the answers to the persistent questions about free will, the self, the soul, and the meaning of life that the illusion generates [–> bye bye to responsible, rational freedom on these presuppositions].

The physical facts fix all the facts. [–> asserts materialism, leading to . . . ] The mind is the brain. It has to be physical and it can’t be anything else, since thinking, feeling, and perceiving are physical process—in particular, input/output processes—going on in the brain. We [–> at this point, what we, apart from we delusions?] can be sure of a great deal about how the brain works because the physical facts fix all the facts about the brain. The fact that the mind is the brain guarantees that there is no free will. It rules out any purposes or designs organizing our actions or our lives [–> thus rational thought and responsible freedom]. It excludes the very possibility of enduring persons, selves, or souls that exist after death or for that matter while we live.>>

This is just one of many ways of putting this issue.

Your answer is: ________________________ ?

Thanks in advance,


MungI am a rock!

jdkUDEditors: Cowardly attempt to derail the discussion deleted.


Perhaps this will help jdk:

What is Life?: How Chemistry Becomes Biology

Or, perhaps jdk would prefer to remain, in essence, a rock, standing firm, till the end.


“The difference between a mixture of simple chemicals and and a bacterium is much more profound than the gulf between a bacterium and an elephant”

– Dr. Robert Shapiro

I think that Our Leaders will soon long for the day when Christians shut their traps before their Intellectual Superiors.

The effect will be greatly accelerated, the more Christians are homeschooled and learn to think for themselves, and the more materialists are drawn from the conformist public school system, nurtured and sheltered by the government from any hint of challenge to their core ideas.

Also recommended is the parent article, No Sane Person Acts as if Materialism Were True.

Draw up two lists, the first being all the scientific and technological advances of the last two hundred years, say, that were based on [1] a naturalistic/materialistic/ physicalist metaphysics, [2] the second being a list of all such advances based on a teleological metaphysics. A simple comparison should reveal which has been the more prolific and productive approach.

Interesting test. The answer is on list [1] there would be zero entries. On list [2] there would be all the scientific and technological advances of the last two hundred years.

You see, Sev, many people spout materialism. No one actually conducts their lives, from moral choices to scientific research, as if it were true. Because if it were true, there would be no point to any moral choice, and there would be no reason to expect that the universe conforms to regularities we call scientific laws. So, even the researchers who spout materialism act as if it were false when they are actually doing research.

This is especially true of biology, including evolutionary biology, where the scientific literature is drenched in teleological language.  Why?  Because if one wants to describe what is going on, the use of teleological language is unavoidable.

In other words, atheists say one thing, but behave as if another set of presuppositions were true.


“Atheistic man speaks with forked tongue.”

That’s for two reasons:
  1. Atheism does not comport with reality;
  2. Atheism – like any and al beliefs that deny the power and authority of Christ the King – originates with Satan, the original lying and murderous snake.

Advice: don’t build a dying, self-disproving, delusional atheistic society.

Build a Christian culture, and be full of joy – now (even if mixed with tears, from time to time), and forevermore, in glory and honour.


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